Mailing List Archive: Trac: Users

TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to TracHoursPlugin

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gctrekker at gmail

Oct 9, 2008, 8:21 AM

Post #1 of 10 (193 views)
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TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to TracHoursPlugin

We are comparing the TimingAndEstimationPlugin (TAEP) and the
TracHoursPlugin (THP) and I am interested on what users of either of
these plugins like or dislike about them. I have not installed either
of them at this point. We want to record the Level Of Effort estimate
and time worked to help with during triage of milestones.

I am using the trac-post-commit-hook and would like to also capture
hours from svn commits. The TAEP has a modified trac-post-commit-hook
that captures the time and updates the tickets. Has anyone modified
the trac-post-commit-hook program to work with THP?

I would appreciate comments from the group. In searching the group I
have not found many comments about this. Thank you.

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ChrisN at sixnetio

Oct 9, 2008, 8:29 AM

Post #2 of 10 (181 views)
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Re: TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to TracHoursPlugin [In reply to]

gctrekker wrote:
> We are comparing the TimingAndEstimationPlugin (TAEP) and the
> TracHoursPlugin (THP) and I am interested on what users of either of
> these plugins like or dislike about them. I have not installed
> either of them at this point. We want to record the Level Of Effort
> estimate and time worked to help with during triage of milestones.
>
> I am using the trac-post-commit-hook and would like to also capture
> hours from svn commits. The TAEP has a modified
> trac-post-commit-hook that captures the time and updates the tickets.
> Has anyone modified the trac-post-commit-hook program to work with
> THP?
>
> I would appreciate comments from the group. In searching the group I
> have not found many comments about this. Thank you.

I don't know how much this helps you but we are using TAEP with mixed
results. We'd like to be able to report how good our estimates were
when we're done with something. One important question is "how good was
our initial estimate" but the history of estimated hours seems muddy.
In the change history for a ticket, we see "estimatedhours changed from
8.0 to 0.0" when we've actually changed it from 8 to 24.

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jhammel at openplans

Oct 9, 2008, 8:39 AM

Post #3 of 10 (181 views)
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Re: TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to TracHoursPlugin [In reply to]

I will respond to the TracHours side of thing, since I'm partially responsible for it. TracHours was designed to meet the specs of one of our staff (a project manager, for lack of a better term) who didn't like certain features of TAEP. Namely, he wanted:

* no addition to ticket comments when hours were added (save when hours were added with a message)
* ability to edit hours instead of adding negative hours
* ability to add hours as someone else with sufficient permission
* ability to add hours on dates other than today
* ability to query hours across (local) trac instances
* ability to build reports (queries, really) for people's hours

So those are the motivating factors. TAEP is certainly more mature and has many more features, both built in and built as extensions, but I can't speak to it more than that (I'm a mere developer, no project manager me). We're using TracHours in house now, though honestly I don't know how heavily.

Jeff Hammel
The Open Planning Project
http://topp.openplans.org
IRC: jhammel, k0s

On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 08:21:03AM -0700, gctrekker wrote:
>
> We are comparing the TimingAndEstimationPlugin (TAEP) and the
> TracHoursPlugin (THP) and I am interested on what users of either of
> these plugins like or dislike about them. I have not installed either
> of them at this point. We want to record the Level Of Effort estimate
> and time worked to help with during triage of milestones.
>
> I am using the trac-post-commit-hook and would like to also capture
> hours from svn commits. The TAEP has a modified trac-post-commit-hook
> that captures the time and updates the tickets. Has anyone modified
> the trac-post-commit-hook program to work with THP?
>
> I would appreciate comments from the group. In searching the group I
> have not found many comments about this. Thank you.
>
>
> >

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yoheeb at gmail

Oct 9, 2008, 9:48 AM

Post #4 of 10 (181 views)
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Re: TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to TracHoursPlugin [In reply to]

On Oct 9, 10:39�am, Jeff Hammel <jham...@openplans.org> wrote:
> I will respond to the TracHours side of thing, since I'm partially responsible for it. �TracHours was designed to meet the specs of one of our staff (a project manager, for lack of a better term) who didn't like certain features of TAEP. �Namely, he wanted:
>
> �* no addition to ticket comments when hours were added (save when hours were added with a message)
> �* ability to edit hours instead of adding negative hours
> �* ability to add hours as someone else with sufficient permission
> �* ability to add hours on dates other than today
> �* ability to query hours across (local) trac instances
> �* ability to build reports (queries, really) for people's hours
>
> So those are the motivating factors. �TAEP is certainly more mature and has many more features, both built in and built as extensions, but I can't speak to it more than that (I'm a mere developer, no project manager me). �We're using TracHours in house now, though honestly I don't know how heavily.
>
> Jeff Hammel
> The Open Planning Projecthttp://topp.openplans.org
> IRC: jhammel, k0s
>
> On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 08:21:03AM -0700, gctrekker wrote:
>
> > We are comparing the TimingAndEstimationPlugin (TAEP) and the
> > TracHoursPlugin (THP) and I am interested on what users of either of
> > these plugins like or dislike about them. �I have not installed either
> > of them at this point. �We want to record the Level Of Effort estimate
> > and time worked to help with during triage of milestones.
>
> > I am using the trac-post-commit-hook and would like to also capture
> > hours from svn commits. �The TAEP has a modified trac-post-commit-hook
> > that captures the time and updates the tickets. �Has anyone modified
> > the trac-post-commit-hook program to work with THP?
>
> > I would appreciate comments from the group. �In searching the group I
> > have not found many comments about this. �Thank you.

Interesting. I have a few questions/comments about the TracHours
plugin, if you have the time:
- when clicking on the total hours for a milestone on your demo site
(total hours: 645...or soemthing) which calculates correctly I might
add:
the breakdown threw the following error:
"Oops�
Trac detected an internal error:
KeyError: 'to_year'
There was an internal error in Trac. It is recommended that you
inform your local Trac administrator and give him all the information
he needs to reproduce the issue.
The action that triggered the error was:
GET: /hours"

does this happen in the current version, and is it planned to be
fixed.

- is this compatible with the Timing and Estimation plugin for the
purposes of other plugins that rely on it? (assuming they only use
the total_hours and estimated_hours fields)
- what would it take to put back in the "add hours to ticket" option.
the issue with directly editing is it doesn't prevent you from adding
negative hours (ok, I think you can "add hours to ticket" with a
negative, but it's less obvious
- can we get the hour updates to show in the ticket history even when
no comment is included? (is this configurable?)
- any macro's planned to use this information and/or graph it.
- any plan for totals/summations in reports and queries?
- support for master tickets? (i.e., summation of esitmates/totals
for child tickets.)

Btw, I think it's a pretty darn good looking plugin so far. Similiar
to the way Agilo does it, but their calculations are a little more
advanced as they can operate on data from linked tickets, and do more
than just sum. I am digging it, I may give it a try over the Timing
and Estimation plugin if it proves compatible with the other plugins
that use this data to do other things (reports, etc.) particularly the
Mylyn plugin, which I don't actually use, but some here like that it
can update total hours for them.

Nice work!

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yoheeb at gmail

Oct 9, 2008, 9:56 AM

Post #5 of 10 (181 views)
Permalink

Re: TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to TracHoursPlugin [In reply to]

One other thing, I noticed in the TODO file in your source, you are
toying with the syntax for adding hours to the ticket via repo hook.
please implement the same method of adding hours as the Timing and
Estimation plugin with the () syntax : (spent 2), (sp 2) or simply (2)
at the end of an update command such as:
close, closed, closes, fix, fixed, fixes
references, refs, addresses, re, see

in other words, since the functionality is the same for this purpose,
the post-commit-hook should be able to be shared. Just a thought.

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jhammel at openplans

Oct 9, 2008, 12:34 PM

Post #6 of 10 (181 views)
Permalink

Re: TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to TracHoursPlugin [In reply to]

On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 09:48:49AM -0700, yoheeb[at]gmail.com wrote:
>
> On Oct 9, 10:39 am, Jeff Hammel <jham...@openplans.org> wrote:
> > I will respond to the TracHours side of thing, since I'm partially responsible for it. TracHours was designed to meet the specs of one of our staff (a project manager, for lack of a better term) who didn't like certain features of TAEP. Namely, he wanted:
> >
> > * no addition to ticket comments when hours were added (save when hours were added with a message)
> > * ability to edit hours instead of adding negative hours
> > * ability to add hours as someone else with sufficient permission
> > * ability to add hours on dates other than today
> > * ability to query hours across (local) trac instances
> > * ability to build reports (queries, really) for people's hours
> >
> > So those are the motivating factors. TAEP is certainly more mature and has many more features, both built in and built as extensions, but I can't speak to it more than that (I'm a mere developer, no project manager me). We're using TracHours in house now, though honestly I don't know how heavily.
> >
> > Jeff Hammel
> > The Open Planning Projecthttp://topp.openplans.org
> > IRC: jhammel, k0s
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 08:21:03AM -0700, gctrekker wrote:
> >
> > > We are comparing the TimingAndEstimationPlugin (TAEP) and the
> > > TracHoursPlugin (THP) and I am interested on what users of either of
> > > these plugins like or dislike about them. I have not installed either
> > > of them at this point. We want to record the Level Of Effort estimate
> > > and time worked to help with during triage of milestones.
> >
> > > I am using the trac-post-commit-hook and would like to also capture
> > > hours from svn commits. The TAEP has a modified trac-post-commit-hook
> > > that captures the time and updates the tickets. Has anyone modified
> > > the trac-post-commit-hook program to work with THP?
> >
> > > I would appreciate comments from the group. In searching the group I
> > > have not found many comments about this. Thank you.
>
> Interesting. I have a few questions/comments about the TracHours
> plugin, if you have the time:
> - when clicking on the total hours for a milestone on your demo site
> (total hours: 645...or soemthing) which calculates correctly I might
> add:
> the breakdown threw the following error:
> "Oops…
> Trac detected an internal error:
> KeyError: 'to_year'
> There was an internal error in Trac. It is recommended that you
> inform your local Trac administrator and give him all the information
> he needs to reproduce the issue.
> The action that triggered the error was:
> GET: /hours"

> does this happen in the current version, and is it planned to be
> fixed.

Fixed, I think. Didn't know about this one.

> - is this compatible with the Timing and Estimation plugin for the
> purposes of other plugins that rely on it? (assuming they only use
> the total_hours and estimated_hours fields)

I can't really answer that question. The fields are named the same, so maybe. But I can't say.

> - what would it take to put back in the "add hours to ticket" option.
> the issue with directly editing is it doesn't prevent you from adding
> negative hours (ok, I think you can "add hours to ticket" with a
> negative, but it's less obvious

Nothing prevents you from adding negative hours now. I've ticketed something like this:

http://trac.openplans.org/hours/ticket/22

> - can we get the hour updates to show in the ticket history even when
> no comment is included? (is this configurable?)

Not yet. Ticketed: http://trac.openplans.org/hours/ticket/23

> - any macro's planned to use this information and/or graph it.

No plans, no.

> - any plan for totals/summations in reports and queries?

These are already displayed in /hours

> - support for master tickets? (i.e., summation of esitmates/totals
> for child tickets.)

Would be cool: http://trac.openplans.org/hours/ticket/24

> Btw, I think it's a pretty darn good looking plugin so far. Similiar
> to the way Agilo does it, but their calculations are a little more
> advanced as they can operate on data from linked tickets, and do more
> than just sum. I am digging it, I may give it a try over the Timing
> and Estimation plugin if it proves compatible with the other plugins
> that use this data to do other things (reports, etc.) particularly the
> Mylyn plugin, which I don't actually use, but some here like that it
> can update total hours for them.
>
> Nice work!

Thanks

Jeff

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jhammel at openplans

Oct 9, 2008, 12:38 PM

Post #7 of 10 (166 views)
Permalink

Re: TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to TracHoursPlugin [In reply to]

On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 09:56:10AM -0700, yoheeb[at]gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> One other thing, I noticed in the TODO file in your source, you are
> toying with the syntax for adding hours to the ticket via repo hook.
> please implement the same method of adding hours as the Timing and
> Estimation plugin with the () syntax : (spent 2), (sp 2) or simply (2)
> at the end of an update command such as:
> close, closed, closes, fix, fixed, fixes
> references, refs, addresses, re, see
>
> in other words, since the functionality is the same for this purpose,
> the post-commit-hook should be able to be shared. Just a thought.

Thanks for the idea on syntax. In general, I'm not a fan of the monolithic (albeit tiny monolith) of the trac-post-commit hook, because its not pluggable. If I were to innovate a plugin for TracHours that does this, I would extend the pluggable system of RepositoryHookSystem (http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/RepositoryHookSystemPlugin) or SvnChangeListener (http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/SvnChangeListenerPlugin).

P.S. RepositoryHookSystem currently only works for SVN, despite its general idea.

Jeff Hammel

> >

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Dale.Miller at ngc

Oct 9, 2008, 1:00 PM

Post #8 of 10 (181 views)
Permalink

Re: TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to TracHoursPlugin [In reply to]

On the hours screen in TracHoursPlugin it shows the selection
capabilities between two dates. However, it seems that you always get a
week ending on the start date. Is this not working correctly?

Dale Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: trac-users[at]googlegroups.com [mailto:trac-users[at]googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of yoheeb[at]gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:56 AM
To: Trac Users
Subject: [Trac] Re: TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to
TracHoursPlugin

One other thing, I noticed in the TODO file in your source, you are
toying with the syntax for adding hours to the ticket via repo hook.
please implement the same method of adding hours as the Timing and
Estimation plugin with the () syntax : (spent 2), (sp 2) or simply (2)
at the end of an update command such as:
close, closed, closes, fix, fixed, fixes references, refs, addresses,
re, see

in other words, since the functionality is the same for this purpose,
the post-commit-hook should be able to be shared. Just a thought.

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gctrekker at gmail

Oct 9, 2008, 2:09 PM

Post #9 of 10 (181 views)
Permalink

Re: TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to TracHoursPlugin [In reply to]

On the hours screen in TracHoursPlugin it shows the selection
capabilities between two dates. However, it seems that you always get
a week ending on the start date. Is this working correctly?

I would also like to know if anyone is using the trac-post-commit-
hook.py from the TimingAndEstimationPlugin with the TracHoursPlugin.

On Oct 9, 2:38 pm, Jeff Hammel <jham...@openplans.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 09:56:10AM -0700, yoh...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > One other thing, I noticed in the TODO file in your source, you are
> > toying with the syntax for adding hours to the ticket via repo hook.
> > please implement the same method of adding hours as the Timing and
> > Estimation plugin with the () syntax : (spent 2), (sp 2) or simply (2)
> > at the end of an update command such as:
> > close, closed, closes, fix, fixed, fixes
> > references, refs, addresses, re, see
>
> > in other words, since the functionality is the same for this purpose,
> > the post-commit-hook should be able to be shared. Just a thought.
>
> Thanks for the idea on syntax. In general, I'm not a fan of the monolithic (albeit tiny monolith) of the trac-post-commit hook, because its not pluggable. If I were to innovate a plugin for TracHours that does this, I would extend the pluggable system of RepositoryHookSystem (http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/RepositoryHookSystemPlugin) or SvnChangeListener (http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/SvnChangeListenerPlugin).
>
> P.S. RepositoryHookSystem currently only works for SVN, despite its general idea.
>
> Jeff Hammel
>
>
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jhammel at openplans

Oct 10, 2008, 10:28 AM

Post #10 of 10 (166 views)
Permalink

Re: TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to TracHoursPlugin [In reply to]

If this is the behavior you are seeing, then it is incorrect (at least, if I understand you). But I don't see this behavior locally. If you're convinced its not behaving properly, could you please ticket at http://trac.openplans.org/hours/newticket ?

Thanks,

Jeff Hammel
The Open Planning Project

On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 03:00:39PM -0500, Miller, Dale (Mission Systems) wrote:
>
> On the hours screen in TracHoursPlugin it shows the selection
> capabilities between two dates. However, it seems that you always get a
> week ending on the start date. Is this not working correctly?
>
> Dale Miller
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trac-users[at]googlegroups.com [mailto:trac-users[at]googlegroups.com]
> On Behalf Of yoheeb[at]gmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:56 AM
> To: Trac Users
> Subject: [Trac] Re: TimingAndEstimationPlugin compared to
> TracHoursPlugin
>
>
>
> One other thing, I noticed in the TODO file in your source, you are
> toying with the syntax for adding hours to the ticket via repo hook.
> please implement the same method of adding hours as the Timing and
> Estimation plugin with the () syntax : (spent 2), (sp 2) or simply (2)
> at the end of an update command such as:
> close, closed, closes, fix, fixed, fixes references, refs, addresses,
> re, see
>
> in other words, since the functionality is the same for this purpose,
> the post-commit-hook should be able to be shared. Just a thought.
>
>
>
> >

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